Re: [hylafax-users] [hylafax-devel] Re: new community site

[Lee Howard <faxguy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Aidan Van Dyk wrote:

> But who
> are all the "contributors" that knew about hylafax.sf.net?

As I said, most of those contributors remain anonymous through me.  Some 
of them lurk on these lists, most don't; some have contributed code 
directly also, some not.  These contributors are those who have brought 
to us 99% of "my" developments since 4.2.0 began coalescing.

But, in any case, let me not blow this out of context... to them (and to 
me) this Sourceforge site seemed trivial.  I knew that it would ruffle 
Darren's feathers, but I didn't figure that anyone else would see a 
non-existent conspiracy here.  So, there weren't formal informative 
e-mails or anything that political.  It was sort of like, "Oh, and I'm 
setting up a HylaFAX site at Sourceforge".  Reply, "cool".  Nobody else 
really gave it a second thought.

> I certainly
> didn't.  Am I just "thrown out with the bath water" because iFAX happens
> to be pay me to spend some time on HylaFAX code sometimes?
>  

Lest we all forget, in the past I too worked as a contractor for iFAX, 
so no, I didn't ignore you because of your association.

Mostly I didn't think that the Sourceforge site was that big of a deal, 
so why make lots of announcements and such?  If you'd like to do some 
work there and have priviledges on the Sourceforge site I'm more than 
happy to get that to you and anyone else who sincerely is interested.

> The main thing I get from reading all Lee's posts is that he is against
> the "commercialisation" iFAX is doing with HylaFAX (in particular, the
> commercialisation of hylafax.org). 
>  

Yes, that's the main thing.  Not the only thing, but yes, the main thing.

> But all I see on hylafax.org is a small "box" with hylafax-supported
> hardware on shop.ifax.com.   And on the mailling lists, a single line
> on the bottom of messages (BTW, how many  people actually read the
> bottom of ML signatures?).

I realize that to you these may be small things.  To me they were 
constant and painful reminders that any work I was doing would be 
continually lending credence to the appearance that the HylaFAX 
development community all looks favorably upon iFAX and that we are all 
happy to march under the iFAX banner.

> Compare that to Lee's constant "you could pay
> someone do do it (hint hint) posturing on the lists.

Honestly, there's no "hint hint" involved there.  I've got no problems 
with e-mailing someone privately and letting them know that I'll do the 
development work for them and at what cost.  I've also got no problems 
telling people publicly that I can be hired for work.  Usually, though, 
I'm too busy to want most of that work to come to me, though.  My hope 
is that others on these lists are approached for that development work, 
and that the work will eventually find its way into the source 
repository.  So when I say that people can hire a programmer to do the 
work I'm honestly saying that people are available - be it you or me or 
anyone - who can help people with their HylaFAX needs despite the 
"programming language barrier".

> All told, I'm
> surprised that iFAX hasn't done any more spreading of it's name/logo
> around hylafax.org.  I can't speak for them, but I would chalk it up to
> them trying to keep hylafax.org healthy and stable, distinct from iFAX
>  

Maybe.  I think that it's in iFAX's interests to make it look like 
they're fostering the entire community in a benevolent manner and that 
the entire community supports their business.  I think that adding too 
much propaganda to the site would deter from that appearance.  But, I'm 
freed from that concern now.  Darren can do what he pleases, and it 
doesn't bother me.

> All on a
> site with a big "donate" logo on the bottom.

When you set up a Sourceforge site it makes this portion very easy to 
do, and in fact by the time you get done without it Sourceforge will nag 
you about not having it set up.  And so I thought and thought about 
it... and you know, I think it's a good idea to allow a means for the 
general public to financially contribute to the development process 
other than going out and hiring someone to do some coding.  I've already 
said what would happen to any donations received, but I have my doubts 
that any will ever be given.  This is free software, isn't it?  Free as 
in freedom and free as in beer.  Most people aren't going to even think 
twice about donating money.  I know that I probably wouldn't have until 
I became involved as a developer.

> 2) Completeness of it being "separate" from hylafax.org, including
>   "releases", "mailing lists", "bug tracker" which are all listed and
>   referred to as if they are from the "HylaFAX development team".
> 3) That I'm obviously thus not part of the "HylaFAX development team".
>  

Well, I think that you've misunderstood, then.  Up until now we've been 
happy without spelling-out the who's-who of HylaFAX.  Do we need to set 
up a page similar to: ?

 http://gaim.sourceforge.net/contactinfo.php

I'm fine with that, if that's what you and other developers want, 
although I think that it's a bit pretentious.

Thanks,

Lee.


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