Re: [hylafax-users] [hylafax-devel] Re: new community site

[Tom Rymes <trymes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Nov 3, 2005, at 12:44 PM, Aidan Van Dyk wrote:

> The main thing I get from reading all Lee's posts is that he is  
> against
> the "commercialisation" iFAX is doing with HylaFAX (in particular, the
> commercialisation of hylafax.org).
>
> But all I see on hylafax.org is a small "box" with hylafax-supported
> hardware on shop.ifax.com.   And on the mailling lists, a single line
> on the bottom of messages (BTW, how many  people actually read the
> bottom of ML signatures?).  Compare that to Lee's constant "you  
> could pay
> someone do do it (hint hint) posturing on the lists.  All told, I'm
> surprised that iFAX hasn't done any more spreading of it's name/logo
> around hylafax.org.  I can't speak for them, but I would chalk it  
> up to
> them trying to keep hylafax.org healthy and stable, distinct from iFAX

I, too do not understand this. I know it is more complicated than we  
see on the users list, but iFax seems to have done very little to  
commercialize the hylafax.org domain, and they seem to be pretty  
reasonable when it comes to commercializing HylaFAX. AFAICT, iFax and  
HylaFAX are very well separated. Then again, I think this boils down  
to control more than a money issue. (and I'm not throwing mud in  
either direction with that comment.)

> And so he's set up another informational site about HylaFAX.  Cool,
> that's not an issue - anyone can setup an informational site.  But

Agreed, I think that, given the lack of renewal of the hylafax.org  
site, another, hopefully more dynamic and up-to-date site is a great  
idea.

> that's not just what I see.  I see another site, listing other  
> releases,
> another set of mailing lists, and another bug tracker system, with

This, too bothers me. I think that an informational website is a good  
thing, the more the merrier (within reason). However, I personally  
hate the idea of subscribing to another list for HylaFAX (and I'm not  
going to, either.) This is because two lists fragments the community.  
We have one list that, despite its ownership by iFax, is not  
moderated or controlled in any other way. A small banner on the  
bottom of each message is certainly the least we can put up with to  
make up for the bandwidth, etc that iFax pays for to host the list.  
However, if from now on 50% of new community members sign up here and  
the other 50% sign up at sourceforge, we now have two, less useful  
lists instead of one list that is more diverse, helpful, and easy to  
use for the community.

Same goes for the bug tracker, etc.. These things don't add to the  
community, like the wed page does. In fact, they fragment it and make  
it more complex and difficult for the community to navigate. If I  
don't subscribe to the new list, I will miss the helpful discussions  
there that might expand my knowledge. And why should I have to  
subscribe to two lists when this one works fine?

This whole thing seems like a solution in search of a problem (with  
the exception of the web page)

> The only things that are bugging me about hylafax.sf.net are:
>
> 1) The announced intention of "de-commercialising" it, with a big
>    paypal donation solicitation on the bottom of every page.

This is a bit weird.... Lee mentioned accounting for this, but who  
decides who gets the money? I can say that, given the animosity, I  
find it highly unlikely that Darren will find himself the recipient  
of any of it....who else would be persona non grata, and who decides   
that?

Tom
 (who is glad to see a new web repository for useful info, but  
peeved about the fragmentation going on here. The idea of two mailing  
lists is completely absurd in my opinion, and subscribing to two  
lists ain't gonna fly here.)

PS: Thanks to iFax for hosting the list, the website, and creating  
the RPMs, and also for being respectful when it comes to  
commercialization of those things. Thanks to Lee for all of his  
input, enthusiasm and help to the community.


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